29 July 2025

Seoul revisited

Another couple of days in Seoul proved pretty hot, with temperatures getting up over 37 degrees, and humidity very high. This limited what we were able to do, to a certain extent, although we got moving early on our first day to do a walk along a section of the old city wall. There is an 18+km path that follows the entire wall boundary, our intention was to do somewhat less that that, with a little loop from where we were staying into the city centre. It all started off well enough, at the Gwanhuimun gate, but after relatively easy navigation, James took a wrong turn and we ended up walking in circles on a walking path near Seoul forest. Few visual landmarks meant it took some time to find the way out of the maze and there were a fair few steps added to our count. once back on the path we headed up towards Seoul tower, with a lot of stairs as the wall climbed the hill. Helpfully, someone had kept a count in chalk on the staircase, and we topped out at 662 stairs climbed. Brutal.

The views from Seoul tower (almost) made up for it, and allowed us to see a side of the city we hadn't previously experienced. If it wasn't pushing into the mid-30s and higher, it would have been a really nice way to spend the day. 


Lunch was at Namdaemun markets where we ducked down an interesting looking alley called "Hairtail alley", where it looked like there were some little restaurants (do you call them restaurants if they seat about 10 people max?). Turns out that "hairtail" is a kind of fish, also called cutlassfish. The little place we ducked into was run by a couple of Korean old women who told us what to order and then served it up. It was super tasty, although we had to figure out the trick of separating the flesh from the bones, which were numerous.
After that, it was back to our airbnb for some cool and rest for the rest of the afternoon. Dinner was at a local street food market - Gwangjang - that Gillian had come across on a Netflix food doco, and she was thrilled to be able to get a seat at the stall of a woman famous for her mandu dumplings and handcut noodles. Naturally, we tried both...

It was blazing hot again for our final day in Seoul, which was slated for catching up with long time friends Hyuck and Namsu. There was not so much "doing" in this case - more a lot of time talking. Which was great and the way it should be really. We spread our time around tea shops and a very popular restaurant in Seoul that seemed to have nearly as much seating outside for people waiting as it did inside for people eating. The food was great and worth the (short, in our case) wait. A stroll back along the Cheonggyecheon stream kept the temperature down about 5 degrees lower than everywhere else, and we spent the rest of the day relaxing and packing (for the move on to Taiwan), only emerging to get ice creams from the little conbini below our apartment for dinner, given that we were still full from lunch!


 
 

27 July 2025

Ulaanbatur and Mongolia wrap up

Ulaanbatur is an interesting city to visit, it is clearly still developing, with a lot of construction going on all over the place. Things are complicated by the fact that there is a construction season, thanks to the extreme winters with temperatures getting down to -40 degrees. The place we stayed had distinct post-communist vibes, reminding us a lot of accommodation we struck in Serbia in Novi Sad and Belgrade (for old time's sake - https://travelsalongthedanube.blogspot.com/2019/08/firstly-gillian-would-like-to-thank.html). Thankfully, no Soviet era lift to travel in, although carrying the backpack up 3 flights of stairs wasn't totally optimal. 


There are a bunch of interesting places to visit and see, in addition to the temples, we went to the Chinggis Khan Museum and the National Museum of Mongolia, both of which were excellent and provided a really nice picture of the role that Mongolia has played in world history across the ages. We still find it strange that essentially none of this is taught in history classes at school - there are real blind spots in Western education regarding Asian history. Although the same thoughts occurred to us after riding through Eastern Europe too, so the blind spots are widely spread around... The highlight of the institutions, though, was the National Art Gallery, which had a fantastic collection of Mongolian Art, most of it from the last 100 years or so. Really well worth visiting and took us a bit by surprise. Both of us had pieces we were struck by and spent quite some time staring at. 

The centre of the city has a huge square, dominated by the National Parliament Building on the northern side. Gillian, of course, was very excited to see it, and also disappointed that there were no tours. The square also functions as a social space late into the night, with families visiting, and kids (and bigger kids) riding around all over the place on a variety of electric and non-electric vehicles. The cityscape itself is clearly evolving, and it was fun to walk around and see the contrast between some of the newer and older areas. We were left with a clear sense that in 10 years time the city will look and feel very different. 

In addition to everything else, Ulaanbatur was our opportunity to properly sample a variety of traditional Mongolian dishes. As previously mentioned, food on the tour at the ger camps was definitely geared towards Western tourist tastes, which left us with only a few chances for sampling Mongolian food. We tried to make up for it back in Ulaanbatur, although we cracked slightly on the final night - see if you can spot the imposter...







26 July 2025

Temples and an ancient city

Buddhism is the major religion in Mongolia, with strong ties to Tibetan Buddhism. The last few days have seen us go and visit some of the major Buddhist temples in the country, including one that sits at the city that was the heart of the Mongol empire. 

Firstly, we were off to the Ongi monastery, which sits in the hills above the Ongi river, running in the south of the Gobi desert. It doesn't sound, or look, very desert-like, but our trip along the way showed us more of what we might have expected if the weather hadn't been so wet everywhere for the last couple of years. Naturally, we had to take some pictures to prove that the Gobi is really a desert!

Plus, we wanted to show an example of the "choose your own adventure" roads - if you don't like the path your own, choose (or make) another one!

The Ongi monastery used to house over 1000 monks, up until the onset of communism in Mongolia. The result of which was explosive charges and widespread destruction of temples around the country. The whole complex was pretty much destroyed, although the original entrance gates still stand. Doorways are an incredibly important part of Mongolian culture, and apparently the destruction of the temples on the site was manageable, but the soldiers jacked up at blowing up the gates on Ongi. There is a (slow) rebuilding plan, with some progress, but being far away and thus low in priority, it will take a long time before the site is returned to any semblance of its former glory. The pictures give an idea of how extensive the complex was, and having seen similar temples across Asia, it is a great shame that this one was wiped out. 


The next day saw us at Kharkhorin which is the site of the ancient Mongolian capital of Karakorum. While there is not much left of the ancient city (just an archaeological dig), the Erdene Zuu temple complex there (which was part of the city) still exists. Although it is a similar story again, with large parts of it destroyed during the Communist era, although this time leaving several of the significant structures in place. It is a hugely popular attraction for both locals and tourists, with a large number of devout people visiting the temples for prayer and contemplation. The size of the area gives hints as to how impressive the complex was in its heyday, and it, in turn, formed a small part of the city of Karakorum.

The little museum there was fantastic, outlining the history of the Mongolian region from right back in the Stone Age. It also brought up a whole bunch of new places we want to go and see, which will sadly have to wait for another time. If you feel inclined, look up "deer stones", these are super interesting. The city was the centre of the Eurasian world for a period of time, and famous for its tolerant approach to all people and religions - it included mosques and Christian churches. There was also a fountain, made of silver and shaped as a tree with four spouts pouring mead, vodka, airag (fermented mare's milk), and wine. There were diplomatic envoys and relations with all the major countries/empires in the Eurasian world, and there's an amusing letter from Güyük Khan demanding Pope Innocent IV 's submission. Which he pretty much got.

Back in Ulaanbatur, we also visited the Gandan Tegchenling monastery, which is the home of Buddhism in Mongolia. Another impressive complex, which due to its size and location in the city was mostly converted to an army barracks during Communist rule, thus escaping the worst of the destruction visited on other sites. Not that there was no destruction there - most of the artifacts were taken and destroyed. It now has a modern temple, which is very impressive, along with several older structures, forming a Buddhist university, where students study different Buddhist practices. Gillian sneaked a forbidden photo inside one of the temples containing a massive statue of Buddha over 25 metres high. It was clearly an active place of worship with tour groups (and other tourist like us) clearly outnumbered by the devout who had come to pray. 



Big birds, horses and the long (dangerous!) drive back to the city

The last few days of our tour we were treated to seeing many of the birds of prey that inhabit the Gobi, and the steppes as we travelled further north. These included the Steppe Eagle, the Cinereous Vulture and Saker's Falcon. Despite being told it was rare, we saw vast numbers of the eagles in particular, which are pretty impressive in flight. Gillian was distressed to learn that their primary diet was ground squirrels, which we saw many of as they fled the oncoming car on one of the back tracks we took on our drives. They are also the only eagles that nest on the ground, albeit occasionally. James did some googling...

We also came across a group of vultures on the side of the road and stopped for the obligatory photos.

These don't do justice to these birds, which are massive and intimidating. About five minutes after getting back in the car, our driver, Tergei, discovered he was missing his phone, triggering severe PTSD from Gillian after our trip to Iceland last year. He decided that it must have dropped out of his pocket when we stopped, so we duly turned around and tried to figure out which of the identical low rises it was we stopped at for the photos. We found what we thought was the place, and as we started searched were treated to exclamations of joy as Tergei found his phone in the first 30 seconds - to the relief of all. Very lucky!

Our last activity on the tour was a stop off to visit a nomad family and have a horse ride. The ride was pretty nice, made memorable by coming across about 20 of the eagles who flew over and around us for a bit. There was a lot of rubbernecking, but thankfully no falling off. Our guide spent most of the time on his phone, so impressed with our innate riding skill that supervision was unnecessary. Tergei was so impressed he took a selfie.

This was followed by a traditional meal cooked by our host, one of the few proper Mongolian meals we had had to that point. We had dumplings and rice soup, and also managed a bit of a conversation through our guide about how livestock is farmed in Australia. Our host was happy to hear that cattle and sheep are mostly free to roam, albeit with more restrictions than on the Mongolian steppe. 

Having an established relationship with the owner of the tour company, she also wanted to send back some of her airag as a gift. This is to go with the airag bought by our driver in Harhoum. And by "some", we mean we ended up with two 4.5 litre bottles of the stuff in the car. This is fermented, and non refrigerated, and it kept fermenting as we went along. Which meant that the pressure kept building in the bottles and needed to be regularly relieved. Which also didn't make for the most pleasant smelling trip home. There was even an incident when Guyen was a little slow to check on the airag and when he opened the cap there was a small explosion of fermented mare's milk in the front seat - which was gross enough to require a quick stop to clean it all up. Regular reminders issued for the rest of the trip back to Ulaanbatur. 

If there is a record for the worst traffic in the world, Ulaanbatur must be close to it. Once we hit the city outskirts, the flow ground to a halt and it took forever to get to our accommodation in the city. The last 10 km took over an hour. We were relieved to get to our airbnb, which had a washing machine which was sorely needed! 

20 July 2025

Pictographs and flaming cliffs

There is a firmly established rhythm to touring through the Gobi Desert. The first part of the day involves a three hour drive over dirt roads, which is bone rattling to say the least. Though it's hard to mind too much as the the landscape changes everyday and is simply awe inspiring. Our driver, Tergey, is very skilled and navigates the terrain like a racer in the Dakar Rally. As he doesn't speak very much English (though a lot more than our Mongolian) Gillian resorted to making up an elaborate back story for him. Former wrestler, Gobi drift driver and fixer (actually, mostly true, we only guess the "fixer" part).

We travelled 170 km from our previous ger camp through the Khavtsgait Valley in the Gurban Saikhan Mountain National Park. A stop (to fix a rattle in the door of the van) also found a close encounter with a (non-venemous) steppe rat snake. Apparently seeing them while you are driving means you'll be rich. Before we arrived at our first destination, we had a little comfort break in the middle of the road, in the middle of the desert. Gillian adjusted to these new arrangements admirably if somewhat reluctantly - oncoming cars provided motivation to be quick! 

The pre-lunch attraction was a hilltop covered in pictographs, carved into rocks covered in iron oxide. They cover a wide rage of times, from 12,000 to about 2000 years ago, not counting the more recent dickheads who decided to add more modern decorations. Look in the pictures below for ibexes, reindeer (a sign of big changes in the local climate!), hunters on horses and even camel trains and chariots. It was a lot of fun, although James did try to inspect every available rock on the way through. The view from the top was also, as usual, spectacular. 

After lunch at the ger camp, there was time for a rest and then on to the flaming cliffs, which have been a significant paleontological site since the 1920s. We watched a video talking about the American expedition that "discovered" the site (and plundered it, naturally). Guyen told us that they were actually told by locals about a place where dragons were buried (the fossil bones were exposed at many places across the site), so they don't really have much claim to discovery, as such. Thankfully, most of the fossils removed have apparently been returned to Mongolia. Views were spectacular, again. The cliffs have there name from their red colour, allegedly more striking at sunset, which doesn't really show that well in the photos. There's a nice view overlooking the cliffs from the camp, and a magnificent sunset didn't really translate the way we expected on the cliff faces. But the photos show we felt no need for compensation.




Camels and sand dunes. And rain.

As we set out this morning it was already a bit gloomy, and the further we went the greyer it got. A quick flash of lights from an oncoming car was enough of a signal for a toilet break (on the side of the road, naturally), and it was just in time too, as we then ran into some decent rain. Apparently quite unusual for this time of year, if I haven't said that before, and a reason for how green the desert appears to be. After a decent drive on the sealed road it was again time to go on to the dirt. We headed through a little town that specialises in making traditional silver cups (they don't have anywhere to watch or buy, trade secrets are closely kept and they are all sold well in advance) and then out the back towards to Khongor sand dunes. 


We crossed over a narrow part of the dune system and moved onwards towards our ger camp for the night. This is a fascinating feature of the desert, a long strip of dunes, up to 25 km wide (usually a fair bit less) and hard up against the bottom of a mountain range. There is a fantastic view of the dunes sitting above the landscape from the camp, and after lunch we headed in that direction. 

First up was a camel ride, supervised by a nomad family. As we arrived after a bunch of other tourists, we were invited into the family ger to wait. It was really a lovely setup inside (including a TV), with buckets of milk and a big leather pouch hanging by the door. This was, of course, the famous fermented mare's milk, which we were given in the tradition of Mongolian hospitality (as well as the time honoured tradition of making tourists try things they wouldn't normally touch with a 10-foot pole. It turns out it's a pretty refreshing drink, very sour and not really that milky tasting. Which is not to say that we asked for seconds... 

It was on to the camels after that, where we were given no autonomy - not that you'd trust us to guide the camels around ourselves - and were led by a friendly woman up the standard track and back. The view on the way back to the camp was spectacular from camel back, with the dunes featuring in all their glory. no photos, as neither of us were secure enough in our balance to be confident of taking a picture without losing the phone. Or ourselves.

After camel riding it was on to sand dune climbing, which was really the most spectacular part of the day. Up close, the dunes are just as striking as from afar, with a river and wetlands just underneath, providing truly remarkable contrast. The ascent was relatively easy, for the most part, thanks to the recent rain. However, it also meant that we did not get to hear the "singing sand" which they are famous for. A reason to come back... We were compensated by fantastic views of the landscape  (again!), which we took full advantage of. Finally it was time to go back to camp for dinner, and anticipate the new adventure coming the next day. 






Wildlife valley

We drove further south to our next stop via the city of Dalanzadgad. The drive was much the same as the previous day, a lot of dirt road, followed by a long stretch of highway in considerably better condition that the road out of Ulaanbatur. Dalanzadgad is at the foot of a mountain range called the Three Lady Mountains (there's a story...), and is the gateway to Gobi Gurban Saikhan Mountain National Park. We headed to camp for lunch, and found it even better appointed than the previous night. The ger was pretty plush, and the bathroom block newly renovated (although the water pressure still sucked). And they have wifi, which was an unimagined luxury before we set off on the trip. James was happy to watch highlights of the Tour de France stage from the previous day.

After lunch there was time for some local exploration, which involved walking to each of the concrete statues on the hills surrounding the ger camp. They represented different animals from the Gobi, wild and domesticated sheep, and ibex and a Gobi bear, which is local to the area but extremely rare (only 50  known in the wild). From the hilltops we were able to watch rain across the vast expanse we could see, and even managed to have some fall on us. Of all of the things we dreamt of on this trip, being rained on in the driest desert in the world was not one of them. Plus, it's still very green. We were promised proper looking desert shortly!

The afternoon trip was to Yoliin Am/Eagle Valley, which gets no direct sunlight due to the steep walls and orientation. Not that it was at all dark. The valley is striking, and we were told to keep an eye out for various wildlife and birds. It turns out that the walking paths through the canyon are teeming with pika, local rodents which Gillian promptly adopted as her spirit animal. There were an unusual number thanks to the wet spring season. We must have seen over one hundred, Guwey told us he would expect to see more like 5, usually. There were also some other little rodents mixed in, called "yellow tails" locally, later identified as Mogolian gerbils (too quick to photographs!). The real highlight was spotting about 8 ibexes, at various points along the trail. They are renowned for being rarely spotted, out of 15 previous trips our guide had see one ibex. He talked about this all the way back home. We also saw an eagle owl, and several vultures, again rare sightings. It may be that the cloudy/rainy day helped us out somewhat, but it made it pretty special. Especially given that the valley is well worth visiting just for its scenery. 




After a decent day of walking and plenty of wildlife spotting, dinner and bed were welcome items on the agenda. 

18 July 2025

The Gobi desert - part 1

For a desert, this place is pretty green... We left Ulaanbatur in the morning and drove south into the desert. Interestingly, about 95%  of the cars are right hand drive, which makes driving on the right hand side of the road interesting. It's interesting enough anyway as the main road south is littered with potholes which require constant dodgem car action. It can be exciting when something is coming the other way. And not any tame little potholes either, some of them can do serious damage. We passed 3 cars changing tyres and one (nasty looking) accident during the morning. But Turgey, our driver, is an expert and we came to no harm. There were even a few side quests onto dirt tracks on the side of the highway to avoid the worst of the sealed section - it was faster!

The landscape is fascinating, undulating with few features of note and no trees at all. It's been wetter than usual the last couple of years (this is a relative thing), and so it all looks quite green. Stepping out of the car and into the landscape quickly shows you that its still very dry, with little moisture in the soil. One of our stops introduced us to the ground squirrel, which lives in burrows in the ground and scampers about too quickly to be easily photographed. There were also the obligatory horses, camels, goats and sheep all along the way.

After lunch, we headed off road and headed into the desert itself. The countryside is criss-crossed with dirt tracks, often several in parallel where alternative routes are found after a section has become too worn. They weave around all over the place, but mostly head to the same places, at least as far as we can tell. We were headed to the Tsagaan Suvarga cliffs, which were the first notable geographic feature we had seen since leaving Ulaanbatur. The are mostly wind eroded, and expose the time from when the Gobi was underwater, and then a floodplain, with alternating layers of white, pink and red. We drove to the bottom and got out and proceeded to climb to the top while Turgey took the car around the long way. We spent some time mooching around and trying to ignore the Insta crowd getting closer to the edge than seemed advisable in search of the perfect shot. 

After the cliffs it was on to the tourist ger camp where we spent the night. It was pretty well set up, better than we expected with an electrical outlet in the ger we were in and hot water for the showers (at least for a couple of hours each day, anyway). It wasn't super busy and we got some amusement at dinner from the kids of the family running it who were doing the serving. They proved brilliantly that brothers and sisters are the same everywhere! The ger was very comfortable and admirably weather proof. A pretty strong wind came up for a few hours after sunset which made us glad to be inside. And while the beds were a bit harder than usual, they were perfectly comfortable and we slept like logs as a result.


16 July 2025

On to Mongolia

We were off early Tuesday afternoon, so there was only time to go for a wander around our local area in Seoul and grab some breakfast before heading to the airport. We were able to explore the Seoullo reclaimed road, which is quite pretty and a nice little urban park in the style of the High Line in New York. Sadly the cafe up there was closed, forcing us to go further afield for some coffee...

We flew MIAT (Mongolian Air) to Ulaanbaatar, always interesting to try a new airline. It was a pleasant contrast to Jetstar in most ways, although the plane was a little dated. Including those little fold down screens which showed a movie everyone could watch together... Still, no real complaints, especially as there was lots of leg room. Gillian loved the way everyone clapped the pilots after we had landed. 

Excitement was building as we touched down and got off the plane to find our driver waiting for us. The first glimpses of Mongolian scenery were already pretty inspiring and we got to see horses (lots of horses) and eagles on the drive into the city. There's something about the scenery that brings to mind Iceland, which we suppose is the lack of trees. Arriving in the central part of the city, you are reminded of the more recent history of Mongolia as you drive through soviet ear buildings. There is so much building going on here. 

We decided to have a relatively early night so only wandered a little way to Sukhbaatar Square. The evening was lovely and warm and there were so many families in the square just enjoying there time together. We wanted to stay a bit longer but the blog and bed were calling.

We're very excited for the big tour starting Wednesday morning, avid readers will have to wait for a while before getting any updates as it seems unlikely we'll have a great internet connection in the Gobi desert...

 



 

Exploring Seoul (first time)

In a short period of time, we managed to do a fair bit in Seoul. It's long been on of James' favourite places to visit, after a whole bunch of work trips to Korea. After the late night (early morning arrival), we didn't get up as late as expected, and headed out for a wander. We made our way to Namdaemun markets to have a look around, and managed to find a tiny coffee stand (yay!) followed by a place that sold a variety of deep fried pastries (the red bean paste filled one was the winner). 

With no space in the bags for any souvenirs, we decided to keep moving and made our way through the city centre to Gyeongbukgung palace. This is an interesting place, having been dismantled by the Japanese during their occupation in World War II, and rebuilt again afterwards to the original plans. There were a lot of people wandering around in traditional dress, due to it giving you free entry. We avoided the queues for the Insta shot with the guards in traditional dress and better enjoyed the wandering through the back sections, which were a lot quieter. 


From there we wandered over to a traditional "Hanok village" area in Seoul - again hugely popular with the Insta crowd. The number of people going through there must drive the locals crazy (it's a residential neighbourhood). They have restrictions on visiting to between 10am and 5pm, although we suspect that this doesn't stop the committed posers. As it was lunchtime by this stage, we made our way to a restaurant for a tasty lunch of japchae and bibimbap, and then on to Insadong, one of the tourism favourites in Seoul with a bunch of shops, restaurants and art galleries. A fun place to wander through (noting the previous caveat about not buying souvenirs), the highlight was a visit to the Teastory teahouse. This was James' 3rd visit, after a recommendation from good friend and colleague Hyuck Cho on his first visit to Seoul. We enjoyed "white" and "yellow" tea, with tasty sesame treats.



The rain that had been on and off all day was starting to settle in by this stage, and by the time we got to the Cheonggyecheon stream running through the city it was pretty steady. It's a pretty walk along the reclaimed stream through the heart of Seoul, and has the advantages of some bridges, which provided shelter during the heavier portions of the showers. With no umbrellas or raincoats (we'll chalk it up to the lack of sleep), we made our way back to the hotel via the subway for a rest. Well deserved too, after clocking up well over 25,000 steps. 

We ducked out to the Myeongdong Night Market for dinner (this time with umbrellas), and were pleased to find a little hole-in-the-wall joint that provided us with jjajangmyeon noodles and seafood pancake for dinner - yum!

15 July 2025

Seoul arrival

After a bus up to Sydney, we stayed overnight at the airport, with a morning flight scheduled. this provided an opportunity for a celebratory drink to mark the start of the adventure.


Things didn't start off so well to the trip with a 3 hour delay to our flight (thanks Jetstar!), which meant we landed in Incheon after 11pm. We picked a day flight to avoid the patchy sleep overnight on the plane, the plan backfired a bit... We managed to get a bus from the airport into Seoul station, conveniently we had a hotel close by. Not so lucky were the 3 girls at the airport who had bought tickets (we think) and then found out there were no seats left on the bus, having to wait until the next one. We didn't feel sorry enough for them to give up our seats!

It was a longer walk than we thought to our hotel with confusing navigation and sleepiness playing their part. We were glad to get there, although somewhat taken aback by the size of the room and the configuration of the toilet/shower. There was no distinction between the two, the shower was over the sink, and with the only screen there to protect the door into the "bathroom". As unpleasant as it was (we won't talk about the smell), we decided that for two nights we could put up with it. The room was also tiny, so much so that James was tempted to go outside and grab one of the stray cats we heard to test a theory. Sanity prevailed. But it was a game of tetris to assemble everything in such a way as to be able to easily get in and out of the bed.


12 July 2025

Here we go...

Preparations for a 3.5 month trip through Asia are pretty crazy. It feels like the "anti" trip. There's been anti-measles, -Hep A, -typhoid -COVID and -rabies vaccinations. A wild array of pills for anti-nausea, -diarrhoea, -malaria, -inflammation and -headache. Not to mention antibacterial handwash and anti-mosquito and -sunburn creams... 

And who knew you could soak your clothes with an insect repellent/killing solution that will last for up to 6 months?

But after all that we are packed (lightly) and ready to go. The idea will be to backpack to Korea, Mongolia, Korea (again), Taiwan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia and then Indonesia. We'll try and keep you updated with what's going on as we go - expect a long gap when we head to Mongolia and spend a week with no internet on a trip into the Gobi desert. 



In conclusion...

The original plan for the big trip had us visiting 10 countries, with our flights home having an 11 hour stopover in Singapore, providing ti...